Curse

IlikeGW · Aug 29, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

the solution is the seperation of RP and PVP only characters. Tada! Everyones happy! The PVP only people can play it like the 3rd person roleplay shooter they want it to be, and the rest of us can play the roleplaying game and actually value our characters instead of thinking of them as temporary holding bins for the skillset we want to take into pvp.

I think this everyone agrees on, except Anet. But just leave out the analyzing and flaming of the PVP perspective, and nobody is disagreeing with you. Not the players anyway.

AeroLion · Aug 29, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Wow, Elistan, way to completely glance over my post. If you'd actually bothered to read my post you would understand that perhaps your team needs a Mo/Me. Perhaps your team needs a Me/Mo. But what if your team needs a Me/x or a Mo/x? Where do you fit in then?

Oh and good job on not replying to the rest of my post. I'm going to assume that you didn't have a rebuttal as of yet and you're simply trying to gather your thoughts.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 29, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Not another one of these... I don't think anyone here thinks that a skilled person couldn't beat a person who had played the game for a longer ammount of time.

Most of these people are just annoyed that, for example, you wanted to make a smiter you will be needing Ether Renewal. Let's say that this person first played the game as a Monk Necro and then used all of their skill points. Let's say this person enters the Tombs as an E/mo smiter. Now, this person finds out that he NEEDS Ether Renewal to run the build.

The player must either 1. Leave the group and spend 2 hours in FoW raking up skill points, leave, sub to Monk/Ele (Doing the quest if he hasn't already), buying a cap sig, running to Thirsty River, grabbing henchmen and then spending 20 minutes trying to find Vassa Si/Issiah whats-his-face and killing him 2. Use 3000 faction or 3. Never make a smiter.

"Oh, hey guys I'm ready" "we're in hoh" -.-;

I think UAS would cause alot more casual playing of the game. I think that "The Grind" is meant as a counter WoW, alot of people who bought this game just got it so they could PvP inbetween playing WoW. The more people trying to get UAS the less people playing WoW. The more people trying to get UAS the more people playing on the servers; perhaps the more will buy the expansions.

Red Sonya · Aug 29, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

While I don't agree with everything Elistan says, I agree that GW's problems stem from the mixing of PvE with PvP. Well, actually the problems stem from the PvP _crowd_, and separating PvP from PvE would go a long way towards stopping the constant bitching & moaning.

Not that the PvP crowd wouldn't continue to bitch & moan, but then it wouldn't matter to anyone else.

Now about PVE and PVP being tied together. I like it myself, it gives me a greater goal than just a stale pve game, something to earn, work for I enjoy that part of the pve game going after the skills so I can use them in PVP.

And just for the record PvP stands for Player vs Player, that can be anywhere from 1 vs 1 to 8 vs 8, so the elitist who think 4x4's aren't pvp can just get off their high horses. It takes MORE skill in the 4x4's especially the random arenas than it does in the 8x8's to be successful. You try coming up with a build that will work and counter as much as you can for a 4x4 random and you'll see the skill required to do so is much greater. If anything you have more "advantages" in 8x8's than you do in 4x4's. I'd personally like to see some 4x4 hoh type battles myself.

4x4 random is the most challenging, because you don't know what teammates you are going to get or what you are going to face, lots more fear factor there than any 8x8's and a lot more challenging and fun. And a lot more rewarding in faction points.

A-Net should bring fame and rank to 4x4 random and team arenas as well, so those of us who "don't like waiting for a group or who's guildmates are ever rarely online at the same time" can benefit from the rank and fame just like any other that pvps in the halls.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 29, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Wow, Elistan, way to completely glance over my post. If you'd actually bothered to read my post you would understand that perhaps your team needs a Mo/Me. Perhaps your team needs a Me/Mo. But what if your team needs a Me/x or a Mo/x? Where do you fit in then?

Oh and good job on not replying to the rest of my post. I'm going to assume that you didn't have a rebuttal as of yet and you're simply trying to gather your thoughts.

Really, you gotta stop making my point for me and telling me i'm wrong at the same time. I UNDERSTAND what you mean, and youre right, just like I SAID, RP characters are at a basic disadvantage already due to relative inflexability, thank you for affirming me on that. Yet, despite the fact that youre affirming my arugment that RP characters are already at a disadvantage, you dont seem to be comprehending that if the PVP group isnt looking for A MO/ME i dont care, because thats what I am. Thats what that character IS... I know, character is a tough term for twitchers to understand, and thats cool, who wants to get attached to thier "character" only to be beaten to the flak cannon and gibbed.... If a group is looking for a MO/N for example, I would say sorry, thats not me, good luck. I'd be capbable of competing with a team who was looking for a Mo/Me. Get it?

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 29, 2005, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Now about PVE and PVP being tied together. I like it myself, it gives me a greater goal than just a stale pve game, something to earn, work for I enjoy that part of the pve game going after the skills so I can use them in PVP.

I can understand that, but RP characters are already at a disadvantage, and if they pvponly crowd gets what they want with uas/much faster skill aquire it will just further unbalance competitivie play towards pvp only characters.

When I speak about seperation of RP and PvPonly, I do not mean that RP characters will not be in competitive play, just strictly with other RP characters.

warban · Aug 29, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Long ago (earlier than this time, two years ago), in Seoul, and Seattle, a game called "Guild Wars" was announced to be released - this game was not designed to be on of the traditional MMORPG's, but as something different. If you go and read this link from when it was announced, you'll find out in a lot more detail than this post will offer, the past of the team behind the development and production of Guild Wars. As I have a lot to go through, I'll summarise different things, from different places, and link to the full discussions.

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25365

I Agree PVP Action is key.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 29, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by warban

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25365

I Agree PVP Action is key.

PVP action is indeed key. How that action is handled is the difference.

The twitches want what they have in thier twitch games, characters even more generic than the ones in this game, and repetitive fights over and over which serve no purpose other than e-penis swordfighting, hey everyone, lets make a third person roleplaying version of team fortress... lol.

Roleplayers also like to compete directly with other players, but they want character development, they want a reason to fight other than the rights to type "pwned". Even if its a cheesy in game plot that says My faction dislikes this other faction, its a reason beyond "pwned".

These differences will never be settled. This is why anet needs to seperate pvp only from RP gaming and let them have thier server for thier lil epenis jousting. That way all the people who thought this was supposed to be 3rd person cs can be happy, and then anet can work on getting more content in the RP game.

varyag · Aug 29, 2005, 10:03 AM // 10:03

ANet made a step in the right direction by moving to balance the Tombs Tournament.
Only two things remain:

1) Implement at least x15 faction rewards
2) Make the HoH a non-defensive two team match.
3) Implement non-scripted endgame PvP-like PvE matches against NPC's.
(Warcraft3 DotA map and 'Fortress Defence' comes to mind...)

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26095

Make the game's PvP playable to its fullest after ascending with one character, and make further ascending and mission repetition purely optional. Farming and repeating the same scripted missions is runining the game.

Epinephrine · Aug 29, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Anyone who says that they got all the gear and skills in 2 1/2 weeks isn't a casual player. I've been playing since release and I still don't have all the skills, nor all the skills I need for some builds - for example, there is Feast of Corruption that I haven't picked up yet, because it is out of the way and I just don't have time. I don't even consider myself casual - I have 400 hours between 3 characters. I still am missing tons of runes, including 3 minors I believe - Energy Storage, Blood and Axe Mastery. I have even larger gaps in my major runes and I have next to no Superiors - my best fleshed out class for superiors is my necro, which has Soul, Death and Curses, and I suspect I have none unlocked in some classes - though I got lucky and got a superior Vigor way back, in fact before I unlocked a major vigor. If I want to make a build that uses a big rune I don't have I pretty much need to buy the stupid thing, and use one of my PvE characters - they all have full rune sets anyway, so I can take any combo of runes with me.

PvP is not easily unlocked for a "casual" player, and even for those who are less casual it takes a while - sure, I could have jumped on the 105 bandwagon, but I shouldn't have to mindlessly farm to try to unlock runes - that kind of garbage is for the grind-lovers out there. I have no interest in farming.

asdar · Aug 29, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I'm absolutely with Elistan on this whole thread.

The game has been out for months now and nobody should still be complaining about any grind. It takes almost no time to do a tiny bit of run through on the PvE side. Deal with it and quit complaining.

Even the very small amount of time it does take on the first character it takes less than half that on the second. I started my War/rnger on a rainy saturday and had him to level 20 by the end of the day. That includes doing all the easy skill quests and with no help or run through at all.

If people would spend a fraction of the time they spend complaining about the grind actually getting the skills they'd have them in no time at all.

I'm also FOR UAS, and I don't care that much if they split off PvE or PvP.

You Can be competitive right away, I know I've won my fair share of matches with just the pre-builts. That's all the box or any statement ever gave. They never said you'd have UAS, in fact they said in beta that they were doing it to test them out.

I've never played an online game that has been so flawless in performance and so forthcoming with changes and updates. I've been in very few that don't have regular server crashes and major crashing bugs the first month of play.

There's things I don't like about GW, I'm by no means a unquestioning fan, but they've done a good job and delivered what they said they would.

Akathrielah · Aug 29, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

PVP action is indeed key. How that action is handled is the difference.

The twitches want what they have in thier twitch games, characters even more generic than the ones in this game, and repetitive fights over and over which serve no purpose other than e-penis swordfighting, hey everyone, lets make a third person roleplaying version of team fortress... lol.

Roleplayers also like to compete directly with other players, but they want character development, they want a reason to fight other than the rights to type "pwned". Even if its a cheesy in game plot that says My faction dislikes this other faction, its a reason beyond "pwned".

These differences will never be settled. This is why anet needs to seperate pvp only from RP gaming and let them have thier server for thier lil epenis jousting. That way all the people who thought this was supposed to be 3rd person cs can be happy, and then anet can work on getting more content in the RP game.

How cute you even invented a new term for pvpers, "twitches" is it? The fact that you resort to such rash and rather crude generalizations detracts from your argument completely.

As a hardcore PvEr from Everquest, I started playing guild wars since it promised a competitive PvP environment that didn't take months, (or years in the case of EQ sometimes) to become competetive with the general competition. I enjoy pvp in a MMORPG (or CORPG as they like to call it)because it allows for far greater strategies and depth than your typical FPS, sort of in between a Real time strategy game and a FPS in my opinion. The fantasy environment and shiny swords is just a plus. While we would all like greater customization, there are far more pressing issues than making shiny new models for your sword.

Your system of Roleplaying PvP that you desire, if I am correct about my assumption, usually degenerates in what happen in Dark Ages of Camelot, a large major faction which completely dominates, and far far smaller ones which squabble with one another and in general do not stand a chance against the larger one. A more fluid system is necessary to prevent this from happening, while some may argue that the current system that Anet is using is TOO fluid and ephemeral, (after all all these wins and loses do not amount to anything than the ability to visit two zones and some statistics on a web page), it is arguably better than an environment where you either join Big Brother or simply get squashed with better players, numbers, and equipment.

The fact that you claim that you can be competetive by merely playing a sole character through the game shows that you have little or no idea how the higher forms of competetive play (basically anything besides random arenas) functions. Even if you remain devoted to a primary class, (monk for example, since it is what everyone else used), many of the other classes have various abilities that complement your role as monk, whatever the role as monk you will have play in whatever build your group will be forming. This can vary drastically, requiring many many skills, far greater than what you can acquire by simply playing through the missons from start to end. Couple this with the fact that obtaining skills that aren't acquired through quests are extremely tedious, and that repeating the same bland storyline line for the second and third time is even more so, and you will have a large population of PvPers complaining. The fact that you persist that people should view your character is "take it or leave it" shows that you have little interest in being competetive. PvP is all about adapting, something that even people who desire to compete in tombs fails to grasp, while their may be some unbalanced factors, like spirits once was, following a major trend only leads to problems against more inventive builds.

I suggest you review your opinion and open your mind a little before making such banal and rather poor arguments, but perhaps you should see a psychologist first and foremost, since you seem to have such a strong fixation on the human phallus.

Aniewiel · Aug 29, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I would just as soon not have to clean this thread out again. Akathrielah: While most of your argument is a GREAT example of what debate is supposed to embody, your last paragraph is a cheap shot.

To everyone else: This thread is again borderline in the debate vs. flame war department. Please don't cheapen your points by resorting to name calling. Argue the points civilly if you would.

Thanks and keep to the topic, everyone.

coleslawdressin · Aug 29, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

How cute you even invented a new term for pvpers, "twitches" is it? The fact that you resort to such rash and rather crude generalizations detracts from your argument completely.

As a hardcore PvEr from Everquest, I started playing guild wars since it promised a competitive PvP environment that didn't take months, (or years in the case of EQ sometimes) to become competetive with the general competition. I enjoy pvp in a MMORPG (or CORPG as they like to call it)because it allows for far greater strategies and depth than your typical FPS, sort of in between a Real time strategy game and a FPS in my opinion. The fantasy environment and shiny swords is just a plus. While we would all like greater customization, there are far more pressing issues than making shiny new models for your sword.

Your system of Roleplaying PvP that you desire, if I am correct about my assumption, usually degenerates in what happen in Dark Ages of Camelot, a large major faction which completely dominates, and far far smaller ones which squabble with one another and in general do not stand a chance against the larger one. A more fluid system is necessary to prevent this from happening, while some may argue that the current system that Anet is using is TOO fluid and ephemeral, (after all all these wins and loses do not amount to anything than the ability to visit two zones and some statistics on a web page), it is arguably better than an environment where you either join Big Brother or simply get squashed with better players, numbers, and equipment.

The fact that you claim that you can be competetive by merely playing a sole character through the game shows that you have little or no idea how the higher forms of competetive play (basically anything besides random arenas) functions. Even if you remain devoted to a primary class, (monk for example, since it is what everyone else used), many of the other classes have various abilities that complement your role as monk, whatever the role as monk you will have play in whatever build your group will be forming. This can vary drastically, requiring many many skills, far greater than what you can acquire by simply playing through the missons from start to end. Couple this with the fact that obtaining skills that aren't acquired through quests are extremely tedious, and that repeating the same bland storyline line for the second and third time is even more so, and you will have a large population of PvPers complaining. The fact that you persist that people should view your character is "take it or leave it" shows that you have little interest in being competetive. PvP is all about adapting, something that even people who desire to compete in tombs fails to grasp, while their may be some unbalanced factors, like spirits once was, following a major trend only leads to problems against more inventive builds.

I suggest you review your opinion and open your mind a little before making such banal and rather poor arguments, but perhaps you should see a psychologist first and foremost, since you seem to have such a strong fixation on the human phallus.

I don't see what is wrong with what Aka said. I have to agree that Elistan keeps making these threads and starting off by calling people stuff. There is no point to be made here, nothing productive can come when you start like that. It is just like a real theocrat, trying to stuff your own beliefs down someone elses throat heh. It feels nice to know you are banned from TGH e. theocrat

If this was my site I would have banned you too ^^ While TGH is a bit UAS-centric for my taste.. at least the whining is somewhat in check..

I am really, really sorry to again criticize the mods here.. It is just feedback from one member, not a flame.. This guy makes several threads a week just like this.. closed minded, pointless, and offering no solution (against your own rules) but he runs unchecked.. I made what I feel to be a very valid thread a few days ago... I quoted from the state of the game letter and a recent FF with James Pheeney where he said we would have a reasonable 1-2 week warning before skill changes would be made. We didn't get that.. we got a partial list taken from just one of the fansites about 24 hours before a surprise 2 AM patch.. Other than the title "Another lie from ArenaNet" (it is the truth) I don't see what could be wrong with my thread.. what happened to it? Closed within a half hour... why? Is it ok for e. theocrat to criticize everyone who doesn't see things his way and persist in his campaign of whining, but not ok to quote ArenaNet's hypocrisy? I have experience as an admin of a gaming site.. small at ~1,000 members but by far the largest for that game (English speakers in a foreign language MMORPG).. I would never let this type of stuff go on... please enforce your rules.. if you need more mod power recruit them.. make a rants forum and dump this garbage there.. there should be an outlet to complain in a constructive manner.. the threads e. theocrat and others spam us with are unneeded..

Anyway, I will try to be on topic now..

Anet has stated there will never be UAS, but we will see a permanent increase in faction soon. It took me a decent amount of time to get my 5k faction in random arenas. I have played three characters through the game and unlocked most skills for every class. To me faction is only really needed to get perfect weapon upgrades. Elite skills are not usually that hard to unlock. I got all runes except 4 or 5 superiors unlocked through grinding at my rune farming spot. I enjoy pve, pvp, and goofing around in town all equally. I don't want to pvp regularly until I have every single skill unlocked and can find a guild that likes to experiment with unique strats. Compared to other games the grind in GW is nothing. Still, faction has been way too low.. maybe the UAS crowd is a minority, but why can't they enjoy the game the way they want to too? IMO nothing less than 2x the increase we saw in eXtREeM PvP weekend and faction cap raised to 30k is a crime. PVP chars will never be separated from PVE chars.. compulsive whiners will never shut up.. sigh... w/e I am off to enjoy GW ^^;

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 29, 2005, 10:17 PM // 22:17

WTF is "skill vs time played"?
The more you play, the more skilled you ought to be. You can spend time getting skills and equipment and/or accumulating PVP experience. If you do neither you will probably be a terrible player. If you do only the latter you will find that you are not versatile enough to be truly competitive at the higher tiers.

Also, a PVE character is just as competitive as a PVP character that uses the same exact setup. If that setup doesn't fit into the team you are trying to play with, then tough luck. Make a PVP char temporarily or something. But don't complain about PVE and PVP-only characters being on different playing fields. They are not.

That having been said, I do seriously dislike that I have to spend a considerable amount of time to HAVE many build options. It is taking me several days to go from a hardcore swords build to a hardcore hammer build, and these several days are not nearly as fun as it was going through missions for the first time, or using a new strong build in PVP.

Now, if Guild Wars were a collectible card game such as Magic, then its current system would be nearly identical to MTG. However, just like being able to make various decks in MTG (or tweak them at a moment's notice) requires $$$ spent on cards, being able to do the same in Guild Wars requires TIME spent on acquiring skills. I don't like having to spend $ on Magic cards; I enjoy playing the game. I don't like having to invest so much time into unlocking skills; I enjoy playing the PVP matches. If it took less $ for MTG, or less time for GW, I would mind less, just like everyone else who complains about the "grind."

What was I even replying to?

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 29, 2005, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

How cute you even invented a new term for pvpers, "twitches" is it? The fact that you resort to such rash and rather crude generalizations detracts from your argument completely.

Please allow me to clarify here. Twitches isnt something I coined, I dont think, and if so, I do not apply it to everyone who prefers pvp to pve. There are plenty of PvP enthusiasts who are not twitches , I would cite you as an example going by what you stated. Twitches is derived from "twitch gaming". i.e. games where the only thing that seperates one player from being "pwned" by another is his skill with the mouse and keyboard, or whatever preferred means is used. I've often heard of UT/CS and the like referred to as twitch games. Its a generalization, i know, but lots of twitch gamers are kinda like the ones you might see in the comp arena sometimes. Ya know who I'm talking about, the guy who feels the need even after 2 of the 4 members of your team quit cause the other guy whos not you is 19th lvl, to pat himself on the back with a hard earned "pwned" or make some denegrating remark about how you suck because you couldnt beat his 4man team with your 2man team.. Anyone who wants to take GW, which is attempting to be more than an FPS/RTS and more than a common MMORPG, and turn it into a twitch game, I would call a twitch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Your system of Roleplaying PvP that you desire, if I am correct about my assumption, usually degenerates in what happen in Dark Ages of Camelot, a large major faction which completely dominates, and far far smaller ones which squabble with one another and in general do not stand a chance against the larger one. A more fluid system is necessary to prevent this from happening, while some may argue that the current system that Anet is using is TOO fluid and ephemeral, (after all all these wins and loses do not amount to anything than the ability to visit two zones and some statistics on a web page), it is arguably better than an environment where you either join Big Brother or simply get squashed with better players, numbers, and equipment.

I'm not sure that I forwarded the idea of a new system. I'm simply stating 2 things. 1) that if anet is going to speed the unlocking of things for pvp, or give pvp only UAS, then it will unbalance PVE characters even further out of competitive play then they already are, so the seperation of pve and pvponly characters will be needed so that those of us who like cooperative play will be able to compete versus other RP characters. And, 2.) I'm highly disgusted about the things that go on in the introductory pvp areas. I know lots of people write it off because its not high end pvp. I Maintain that some number of new players are being turned off to pvp because of the crazy imbalance that goes on there. I personally wasn't turned off of tombs untill I realized that my PVE character even though he could perform as well as any other player of the same class would always have a hard time getting Tombs groups because of fact that he's simply not as flexible as someone who is happy to simply delete and rebuild that instant to get a group. I digress, I suspect some people are getting turned off to pvp because the same people who are screaming that the game isnt skill > time played enough for them do everything in thier power to make sure the introductory pvp areas are Time Played > Skill when given the chance to do so. Thats the Hypocrisy I mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

The fact that you claim that you can be competetive by merely playing a sole character through the game shows that you have little or no idea how the higher forms of competetive play (basically anything besides random arenas) functions. Even if you remain devoted to a primary class, (monk for example, since it is what everyone else used), many of the other classes have various abilities that complement your role as monk, whatever the role as monk you will have play in whatever build your group will be forming. This can vary drastically, requiring many many skills.

Negative. I understand entirely how the tombs work, I've been with some groups that have been to the HoH a few times, have yet to win one, but its not currently a priority. I completely understand your point, and your point underlines and restates the issue I have with the fact that RP characters are already at a disadvantage in competitive play. I'll say it again to be sure it gets thru, when I mention that my monk is competitive, I say that on the grounds that within the limits of his classification, hes as good as any other monk with that classification. Of course hes not as flexible as a pvp only character, which of course is the reason why RP and PVPonly characters should be seperated.

Also, someone quoted me (loosely) as saying that I had all skills unlocked in two weeks and that makes me not a casual player. 1.)I didnt actually claim to be one. 2.)I never said I had all skills unlocked, I said that I had all primary and secondary profession skills unlocked for one character in that time. BIG difference.

Edit: Aniewiel, Thank you for erring on the side of allowing unpopular opinions to still be heard, that alone makes this board better than some I've been to. Also, fear not, I'll not let certain individuals bait me into personal arguments on the thread, let us hope that if they have further problems with how this board is moderated that they choose to handle that by PMs to the mods/reports rather than ranting off topic and throwing in a disclamer comment on topic to try to keep from looking like a troll.

For everyone else, lets say that there will never be a seperation of RP and PVEonly characters in competitive play as there should be, how would anyone propose that RP characters would remain even as poorly viable as they are now in high end competitive play if every pvponly character had all skill options available to him and was able to be SO much more flexible??

Aniewiel · Aug 29, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I have deleted your most recent post, coleslawdressin, because I feel it highly inappropriate to post even the partial contents of PMs you have received from ANY user of this forum. The reason that they are called PRIVATE messages is due to the private nature of the contents between the two users. Posting things sent between two individuals will not be tolerated.

You and Elistan are welcome to continue your personal character assaults in PRIVATE. The rest of us do not want to see them.

Aracos79 · Aug 30, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

In an attempt to bring this topic back to it's intended subject... let me say that I think we need to accept some standard concepts.

First, UAS is never going to happen. ANet has said so and I doubt very much they will change their mind. I'm not saying this to try and antagonize anybody. It is simply a fact, a fact which should shape the course of this debate. There's no point in arguing the merits of UAS because it will never happen.

Second, PvP and PvE play will never be completely seperated. Again, this is because ANet has said that will never happen. The game they want to create involves a connection between the two, and I don't see them changing their mind on that one either. So again, I see very little point in arguing for or against this concept since the developers will not consider it.

For myself, I think if we spent nearly as much time trying to find enjoyment in the things we CAN do in the game as we do pointing out the things we can't, we would all enjoy the game a whole lot more. Look at the positives... we have free online play, devs who care about their product, and a passionate community. That's a lot more than most games have going for them.

So let's keep the debate constructive, and not dig up old horses that aren't worth beating again.

twicky_kid · Aug 30, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

i just want to say this and end a very useless argument.

GRIND is an OPINION. it is subjective to everyone. personally i liked unlocking skills and lvling. lvl cap is good and balanced.

anet has moved faster and more efficiently to make changes and bring new events to us than any other game i have ever played. the game is free so stop complaining.

enjoy the game or just quit. either way you save yourself some stress and keep your blood pressure down.

only change that i and majority of community would like to see happen is refund points other than that they game is fine.

Aniewiel · Aug 30, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Off topic again, coleslawdressing. If you have an issue with the moderation, please send a PM and we can discuss it there.

Thank you Aracos79 for bringing things back to topic.